26th refuel on the Prius:
803 km, added 42.4 liters.
5.28l l/100km calculated (in cold weather, we had snow)
5,2 l/100km on Prius meter (low discrepancy between calc and meter)
This brings me back to my winter average consumption (previous tank was clearly anomalous). Pumping up the tyres may also have helped.
A bit of bad news, a rock hit my windshield while driving at 100 km/h (it scared me to death because I saw it coming in from afar). Damage is limited, just a chip in the glass, but it's exactly in my constant visual range. I guess I'll try Carglass repair; didn't yet check my insurance as to whether this is covered.
Solar Hydro
P.S. I have black leather seats matching the black and dark grey interior, which is far better than the Prii with those grey/brown cloth interiors which are indeed horrible.
803 km, added 42.4 liters.
5.28l l/100km calculated (in cold weather, we had snow)
5,2 l/100km on Prius meter (low discrepancy between calc and meter)
This brings me back to my winter average consumption (previous tank was clearly anomalous). Pumping up the tyres may also have helped.
A bit of bad news, a rock hit my windshield while driving at 100 km/h (it scared me to death because I saw it coming in from afar). Damage is limited, just a chip in the glass, but it's exactly in my constant visual range. I guess I'll try Carglass repair; didn't yet check my insurance as to whether this is covered.
Solar Hydro
P.S. I have black leather seats matching the black and dark grey interior, which is far better than the Prii with those grey/brown cloth interiors which are indeed horrible.
The point of this thread, developed at the request of Bismarck, is to show my Prius' real-world fuel consumption performance (specifically NOT to rely on 'the figures they quote'). I am a continental European, driving mostly 32 km trips back and forth to my office, most of which on motorways at the allowed speed of 120 km/h.
I have no idea whether the Golf Diesel real-world fuel consumption stats would be equivalent or better than the Prius, but allow me to comment (as a former VW car owner):
1) My previous car (VW Polo 1.6, running 95 Octane) never matched ANY tank on my Prius (also 95 Octane) in terms of consumption - and the Prius winter performance is more than a full litre per 100km worse than the summer performance (you can see earlier in this thread that I have many Prius tanks at 4.7 and 4.6l/100 km).
2) 'MPG performance' is not the same as CO2 and NOx exhaust, not to mention diesel microparticles that kill and make buildings black. It it uncontestable that the Prius is far superior to current mainstream diesel cars on those parameters, which, in my view, are the parameters that really count. Buying a Prius to save money is marginal even at current petroleum prices, and probably negative for me given that I don't drive that much; I passed 22.222km today. Can/should we have (bio)diesel-electric hybrids that do better than the Prius on all criteria? YES, I would hope so. Manufacturers have announced these cars but have not delivered. Is that the best solution going forward? NO. Should we have some in the meantime? Probably YES. I'll debate the objective merits of biodiesel, I am very very sceptical.
3) I have stated above that I certainly didn't buy the Prius for its looks ;-)
4) If available and vaguely affordable (doesn't have to be economically rational) I'll take delivery of a Tesla Roadster or Phoenix Motorcars all-electric plug-in car any day (I seriously considered Prius plug-in hacks but wasn't convinced - until now). Oh, and I should have offered money for the BMW HL7 in the dot.com boom times (1999) when I had the money to get one and put it in a museum. Note that, even today, that car cannot actually be bought and BMW are now shopping it around (i.e. giving them away) to politicians. The scary part is that it runs on hydro made from petroleum very inefficiently, and guzzles the hydro like mad. You may also wish to check out the Honda FCX (real fuel-cell hydro), you can lease one for $500.000/year. I like Honda, I hope they get this right eventually, and I'll switch as soon as they do... or anything else that turns out to be vastly superior to the Prius... on whatever fuel that can credibly assert its enviro-credibility, real availability and sustainability and not be hype (also stated previously in this thread). I am not a Toyota fanboy, but I do have the Solar Hydro nickname since 1995 for a reason ;-)
Solar Hydro
P.S. Following-up on a previous thread where FienDi went down to the hard (published by manufacturer) numbers, I checked the VW website for the most economical VW Golf Diesel they sell. Advertised VW stats are: Consumption EU city 6.4, EU average 5.0, EU high road (whatever that means, speed not specified) 4.3 ; no info on temperatures at which they measured it. CO2/g/km 135 (Prius 104), NOx exhaust not mentioned, diesel particles not mentioned. The 95 octane smallest VW Golf is at 166 CO2/g/km.
P.S.2. All of us that do work that can be done from home or in a nearby location that can be reached by walking/cycling should do that immediately; I include myself in that and admit that I haven't.
P.S.3. I do downclock the processor and video card on my gaming pc on environmental grounds while I keep on editing text-only posts on messageboards.
Last edited by Solar Hydro, .
25th refuel on the Prius:
802 km, added 45,72 liters! (tank capacity is 45) I knew I was near empty.
(it was 1° celcius outside, pump choked constantly, maybe that affected it, or maybe the petrol station owner is a criminal)
5.700 l/100km calculated (again among my very worst tanks)
5,3 l/100km on Prius meter (again big discrepancy with calc)
I pumped my tyres up to 2.8 bar (they were down to 2.2 rear, 2.3 front). Yep, I pump them up just when it's gonna snow...
illepall
As a matter of fact, I detected some uncalled for engine revving upon exiting EV mode (already since it became cold this winter; or maybe even since the car servicing in September; I can't recall this phenomenon occurring last year). If I have another bad tank I'm going to stop by the garage to ask them to look into this.
Solar Hydro
802 km, added 45,72 liters! (tank capacity is 45) I knew I was near empty.
(it was 1° celcius outside, pump choked constantly, maybe that affected it, or maybe the petrol station owner is a criminal)
5.700 l/100km calculated (again among my very worst tanks)
5,3 l/100km on Prius meter (again big discrepancy with calc)
I pumped my tyres up to 2.8 bar (they were down to 2.2 rear, 2.3 front). Yep, I pump them up just when it's gonna snow...
illepall As a matter of fact, I detected some uncalled for engine revving upon exiting EV mode (already since it became cold this winter; or maybe even since the car servicing in September; I can't recall this phenomenon occurring last year). If I have another bad tank I'm going to stop by the garage to ask them to look into this.
Solar Hydro
Looking at my Prius, I don't expect too many problems. The 2 engines fit in a comparatively smallish compartment, and the battery (invisible behind the seats) is maybe 3x a normal car battery (I wish it were bigger).
A proper hybrid powertrain and electronics are less obvious to fit in the Seven.
Solar Hydro
24th refuel on the Prius:
753km, added only 43.1 liters
(cold weather)
5.723 l/100km calculated (this is by far my worst tank since I have the car, I can't really explain why, other than the comparatively cold weather, only driving to my office and short trips, but the weather was not as cold as last winter).
5,4 l/100km on Prius meter (one of the largest discrepancies between meter and my measurement also).
It's been a long time since I checked air in the tyres, I'll do that on next refuel.
Solar Hydro
753km, added only 43.1 liters
(cold weather)
5.723 l/100km calculated (this is by far my worst tank since I have the car, I can't really explain why, other than the comparatively cold weather, only driving to my office and short trips, but the weather was not as cold as last winter).
5,4 l/100km on Prius meter (one of the largest discrepancies between meter and my measurement also).
It's been a long time since I checked air in the tyres, I'll do that on next refuel.
Solar Hydro
Finally a post on this thread that is relevant to OLFSL!
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/n ... prepares_to_clean_up.html
Solar Hydro
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/n ... prepares_to_clean_up.html
Solar Hydro
23rd refuel on the Prius:
777km, added only 41.5 liters
(cold weather changes when it looks like you need to refuel)
5.39 l/100km calculated (one of my worst tanks as I recall it, some weird driving induced by the installation of the tracker device may explain it, as well as a bad traffic jam).
5,2 l/100km on Prius meter
Solar Hydro
777km, added only 41.5 liters
(cold weather changes when it looks like you need to refuel)
5.39 l/100km calculated (one of my worst tanks as I recall it, some weird driving induced by the installation of the tracker device may explain it, as well as a bad traffic jam).
5,2 l/100km on Prius meter
Solar Hydro
Actually, the tracker shuts down when I drive in EV mode too long, so I have the worst car for this... (except that ALL CARS will be like mine & then some soon).
Sol
Sol
My alpha test device is now operational (see my posting on this thread of 10 Nov 2006). E-mail or pm me for an online real-time animated demo ;-) or to purchase? ;-)
(requests are not likely to be satisfied immediately, as I need to build in some security, and I will be selective, applicants are likely to be disappointed when I'll reject them).
Lifting a little of the veil, you can check http://www.flickr.com/photos/solar_hydro/ (click on 'all sizes' above the pictures to get decent resolution)
Solar Hydro
P.S. Thanks for the kind words Bismarck, I checked the fuel consumption comparison site, I have seen better ones for the real freaks ;-) I could match the real freaks if I didn't drive on the motorway most of the time...
(requests are not likely to be satisfied immediately, as I need to build in some security, and I will be selective, applicants are likely to be disappointed when I'll reject them).
Lifting a little of the veil, you can check http://www.flickr.com/photos/solar_hydro/ (click on 'all sizes' above the pictures to get decent resolution)
Solar Hydro
P.S. Thanks for the kind words Bismarck, I checked the fuel consumption comparison site, I have seen better ones for the real freaks ;-) I could match the real freaks if I didn't drive on the motorway most of the time...
Last edited by Solar Hydro, .
22nd refuel on the Prius:
837km, added 43.2 liters
5.16 l/100km calculated.
5,0 l/100km on Prius meter
Solar Hydro
837km, added 43.2 liters
5.16 l/100km calculated.
5,0 l/100km on Prius meter
Solar Hydro
The Prius has ABS (anti brake lock) and ESP (anti wheel spin essentially).
The ABS/ESP is very sensitive, it even switches on when there is no snow (I know this because a yellow light flashes on the dash and the brakes feel weird then) on a particular bump in the road that you have to take while braking hard down to 30km/h and turning nearly 90° to the left at the same time.
We had 4-5cm of snow a few days last Winter; temps never below -8° centigrade or so. Needless to say, I ran some experiments.
I slammed the brakes in the snow in my street, and I accelerated hard in the snow as well, and basically it doesn't do much due to the ABS/ESP. All in all, that's far less fun than my previous car in which I used to do handbrake turns in the snow around the business park where my office is.
I have also driven 65-70 km/h in the snow on the motorway in heavy traffic at night, I was pretty much the fastest car on the left lane, passing numerous 4x4 SUVs. I have a movie taken with my phone while driving to prove it if needed
.
Solar Hydro
The ABS/ESP is very sensitive, it even switches on when there is no snow (I know this because a yellow light flashes on the dash and the brakes feel weird then) on a particular bump in the road that you have to take while braking hard down to 30km/h and turning nearly 90° to the left at the same time.
We had 4-5cm of snow a few days last Winter; temps never below -8° centigrade or so. Needless to say, I ran some experiments.
I slammed the brakes in the snow in my street, and I accelerated hard in the snow as well, and basically it doesn't do much due to the ABS/ESP. All in all, that's far less fun than my previous car in which I used to do handbrake turns in the snow around the business park where my office is.
I have also driven 65-70 km/h in the snow on the motorway in heavy traffic at night, I was pretty much the fastest car on the left lane, passing numerous 4x4 SUVs. I have a movie taken with my phone while driving to prove it if needed
.Solar Hydro
Hello, and thanks for the comments,
This thread was triggered by Bismarck who asked for 'real world data, not brochure info on the Prius' (see start of this thread).
I reported it for him, and it's only 5 min effort a shot to do that reporting, so I kept on doing it after every refuel (I stopped converting l/100km to other measurements, but there are webpages that do that if you need it).
Prius is now 1 years and 2 1/2 months old. I have around 19500km on the counter.
I never got round to changing the rims, I decided against the plug-in hack for the time being (extra battery lifetime - 3500 cycles guaranteed - looks too scary, although I may be wrong about that), the car remains dent-free, I had a bit of a scratch across the hood (strange one) which my garage pretty much massaged away for free (all maintenance is free for 5 years, including materials, I didn't even pay for the windshield fluid etc.).
Last week, I got an an interesting alpha-test device installed (non-prius specific) that I'll tell you about later if/once I get it to work...
To install that thing, they took my car apart (including dozens of dashboard and airbag elements, the right-side seat, door panels, etc.), and now I have 2 rattling noises, one in the dashboard speaker (again) and another I have yet to fully identify. I'll try to get the device working, and then go and haunt them about the rattling noises (I told them in advance that I'd be back if it caused rattles - I HATE rattles).
Solar Hydro
This thread was triggered by Bismarck who asked for 'real world data, not brochure info on the Prius' (see start of this thread).
I reported it for him, and it's only 5 min effort a shot to do that reporting, so I kept on doing it after every refuel (I stopped converting l/100km to other measurements, but there are webpages that do that if you need it).
Prius is now 1 years and 2 1/2 months old. I have around 19500km on the counter.
I never got round to changing the rims, I decided against the plug-in hack for the time being (extra battery lifetime - 3500 cycles guaranteed - looks too scary, although I may be wrong about that), the car remains dent-free, I had a bit of a scratch across the hood (strange one) which my garage pretty much massaged away for free (all maintenance is free for 5 years, including materials, I didn't even pay for the windshield fluid etc.).
Last week, I got an an interesting alpha-test device installed (non-prius specific) that I'll tell you about later if/once I get it to work...
To install that thing, they took my car apart (including dozens of dashboard and airbag elements, the right-side seat, door panels, etc.), and now I have 2 rattling noises, one in the dashboard speaker (again) and another I have yet to fully identify. I'll try to get the device working, and then go and haunt them about the rattling noises (I told them in advance that I'd be back if it caused rattles - I HATE rattles).
Solar Hydro
21st refuel on the Prius:
It's getting colder, so fuel consumption is rising again.
837km, added 43.01 liters (I overpumped, some will evaporate)
5.13 l/100km calculated.
4,9 l/100km on Prius meter
Solar Hydro
It's getting colder, so fuel consumption is rising again.
837km, added 43.01 liters (I overpumped, some will evaporate)
5.13 l/100km calculated.
4,9 l/100km on Prius meter
Solar Hydro
20th refuel on the Prius:
885km, added 43.1 liters
4.87 l/100km calculated.
4,7 l/100km on Prius meter (but it was on 4.8 minutes before I refueled).
885km, added 43.1 liters
4.87 l/100km calculated.
4,7 l/100km on Prius meter (but it was on 4.8 minutes before I refueled).
Quick info for 18th and 19th refuel stats on the Prius.
18th (this was the tank where my EV mode button was broken for a while):
913km, added 45.0 liters (yes, the tank capacity is 45l)
4.928 l/100 km calculated, 4,7 l/100km on Prius meter.
19th:
891km, added 43.24 liters
4.85 l/100km, 4,7 l/100km on Prius meter.
Solar Hydro
18th (this was the tank where my EV mode button was broken for a while):
913km, added 45.0 liters (yes, the tank capacity is 45l)
4.928 l/100 km calculated, 4,7 l/100km on Prius meter.
19th:
891km, added 43.24 liters
4.85 l/100km, 4,7 l/100km on Prius meter.
Solar Hydro
Went back to garage today; they fixed the 'EV mode' button in 5 min.
A connector was loose inside the dashboard.
Solar Hydro
A connector was loose inside the dashboard.
Solar Hydro
18th refuel on the Prius today.
I also went for the first maintenance (I reached 15000+ km on the counter, which is the trigger for the first servicing).
The maintenance was completely free of charge (I did not even have to pay for materials like engine oil or windshield wiper fluid). They also did the preventive recall job on the steering column, swapped the tyres around, fixed a rattling noise I had complained about, and dealt with a scratch on the hood... all for free, which is nice...
On the downside, my 'EV mode' button (manual forced all-electric) doesn't work anymore !!! I already called the garage and they invited me go back any day next week to get it fixed. The car does go into all-electric mode, I just can't force it manually into that mode, so it's now like the Prii sold in the USA, which don't have the manual 'EV mode' button.
After having traveled 926 kilometres on this fuel tank - this may be my best - (of which about 10km, done by the garage presumably to deal with my rattling noise), I added 43,2 liters (I overpumped less than usual).
The Q8 price was €1.26/l (a new fully automated petrol station, which was clearly cheaper than the Texaco across the road).
The analysis of this fuel tank is as follows:
4.665 liters per 100km (Prius meter showed 4.7, I had 4.6 when I left it with the garage and they managed to take it to 4.7 by driving 10km!).
Converted to other measurements, this means:
50.42 MPG USA
60.55 MPG Imperial
Solar Hydro
I also went for the first maintenance (I reached 15000+ km on the counter, which is the trigger for the first servicing).
The maintenance was completely free of charge (I did not even have to pay for materials like engine oil or windshield wiper fluid). They also did the preventive recall job on the steering column, swapped the tyres around, fixed a rattling noise I had complained about, and dealt with a scratch on the hood... all for free, which is nice...
On the downside, my 'EV mode' button (manual forced all-electric) doesn't work anymore !!! I already called the garage and they invited me go back any day next week to get it fixed. The car does go into all-electric mode, I just can't force it manually into that mode, so it's now like the Prii sold in the USA, which don't have the manual 'EV mode' button.
After having traveled 926 kilometres on this fuel tank - this may be my best - (of which about 10km, done by the garage presumably to deal with my rattling noise), I added 43,2 liters (I overpumped less than usual).
The Q8 price was €1.26/l (a new fully automated petrol station, which was clearly cheaper than the Texaco across the road).
The analysis of this fuel tank is as follows:
4.665 liters per 100km (Prius meter showed 4.7, I had 4.6 when I left it with the garage and they managed to take it to 4.7 by driving 10km!).
Converted to other measurements, this means:
50.42 MPG USA
60.55 MPG Imperial
Solar Hydro
Thanks Blackout. Was this from the event in Helsinki where Trulli drove the Toyota F1? (I referred to it on chatterbox).
Solar Hydro
Solar Hydro
17th refuel on the Prius today.
After having traveled 900 kilometres on this fuel tank, I added 42,5 liters (probably overpumped a bit again to reach a round number).
This was after A LOT of motorway driving (my usual commute, plus driving to the Belgian coast in a heatwave, some driving around there at 2x airco, and driving back in hot weather and a couple of thundershowers; I used cruise control almost constantly on the motorway in both directions, set at 121km/h).
I stopped by my office on the way back to purge my e-mails, with the Prius meter standing at 4.5 (which surprised me at 873km into the tank), but then I took my usual fuel economy killer motorway back home and I pitted early for a petrol station right after the motorway because I don't want to refuel early in the morning tomorrow on my way to an early meeting. The Prius meter was showing 4.6 again...
The Texaco price was €1.459/l (probably the most expensive yet, they have a temporary monopoly as the Q8 station across the road is being rebuilt).
The analysis of this fuel tank is as follows:
4.722 liters per 100km (Prius meter showed 4.6 = big difference especially since Prius meter was at 4.5 only 27 km earlier, admittedly 27km of the bad motorway stretch).
Converted to other measurements, this means:
49.81 MPG USA
59.82 MPG Imperial
Solar Hydro
P.S. I uploaded a few new pics, including a Prius pic, and a couple of exclusive beer pics, on:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solar_hydro/
After having traveled 900 kilometres on this fuel tank, I added 42,5 liters (probably overpumped a bit again to reach a round number).
This was after A LOT of motorway driving (my usual commute, plus driving to the Belgian coast in a heatwave, some driving around there at 2x airco, and driving back in hot weather and a couple of thundershowers; I used cruise control almost constantly on the motorway in both directions, set at 121km/h).
I stopped by my office on the way back to purge my e-mails, with the Prius meter standing at 4.5 (which surprised me at 873km into the tank), but then I took my usual fuel economy killer motorway back home and I pitted early for a petrol station right after the motorway because I don't want to refuel early in the morning tomorrow on my way to an early meeting. The Prius meter was showing 4.6 again...
The Texaco price was €1.459/l (probably the most expensive yet, they have a temporary monopoly as the Q8 station across the road is being rebuilt).
The analysis of this fuel tank is as follows:
4.722 liters per 100km (Prius meter showed 4.6 = big difference especially since Prius meter was at 4.5 only 27 km earlier, admittedly 27km of the bad motorway stretch).
Converted to other measurements, this means:
49.81 MPG USA
59.82 MPG Imperial
Solar Hydro
P.S. I uploaded a few new pics, including a Prius pic, and a couple of exclusive beer pics, on:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solar_hydro/
Last edited by Solar Hydro, .
The Tesla will cost between $80.000 and $120.000 depending on model.
I still want to get proper wheels for my black Prius; haven't gotten round to it.
Solar Hydro
I still want to get proper wheels for my black Prius; haven't gotten round to it.
Solar Hydro
The plug-in hacks for the Prius are really becoming available in September (cost over €10.000), but perhaps I should rather get this:
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
But: "We will not sell a Tesla Roadster to anyone outside of the continental US."
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
But: "We will not sell a Tesla Roadster to anyone outside of the continental US."
Last edited by Solar Hydro, .
I referred to actual emissions directly from home/building heating systems. Obviously the way in which electricity is generated (which is used also for airco) is also a major issue (USA and China are using coal for a very large proportion).
Solar Hydro
Hello t1ger,
My name Solar Hydro actually stands for Solar Hydrogen Alternative.
The concept is that we electrolyse seawater on a massive industrial scale, using solar power (this involves hydrogen transport, storage and distribution issues), or electrolyse other (waste) water on a local scale, using solar power.
Electrolysis is, using current technology, an energy-inefficient process (you have to put in more electricity than you get out), but Sun and Water are basically there, so do we really care about efficiency if those are the inputs? Absent those inputs, we're dead anyway.
So 'all that's needed' is to get the costs and the environmental impact down of producing solar cells (input is mainly sand, but some precious metals as well, and factories have to make them which affects energy and the environment as well), hydrogen transport and distribution infrastructure if we go for the industrialised/centralised option, and, if chosen as an option for cars and local heating, hydrogen fuel cells (direct hydro in cars is proven to work as well). Clearly this is no small challenge.
Nuclear fission for another 50 years, followed by nuclear fusion, both powering evolved plug-in electric hybrid cars AND electrical/hybrid engine/fuel cell usage for local heating may be a worthwhile interim option. If/once we get nuclear fusion under control, a priority will be to reduce it from 50+bn industrial plants to more localised/micro solutions, which may even become a solution in earnest if this can be achieved.
(Emissions from house/building heating are catastrophic throughout the northern hemisphere with very little by way of filtering not to mention catalytic conversion. This needs to be addressed as a matter of priority equal to cars and trucks but does not seem to be on the agenda of polcy-makers)
As regards biodiesel, I am very sceptical. Think about planting crops, putting manure AND chemicals on to make plants grow, tractors to harvest, transport to factories, factories themselves, transport to refineries, probably some further processing/mixing, transport to petrol/diesel stations, etc. Maybe it's a way of rejigging farm subsidies, and employing 1-2% of the population, but overall ENERGY-ONLY efficiency is doubtful, and I am afraid that it could be negative overall. AND this stuff will STILL AFFECT THE ENVIRONMENT, by emiting CO2 (even if considered neutral theoretically) and other noxious gases, spew out dangerous microparticles (because it will be mixed with petroleum and maybe even intrinsically), blacken historic buildings, etc. I read an article the other day which suggested that it would be a viable commercial business plan in Belgium to go round (in vehicles) to pick-up all the oil that is used by restaurants and homes to make french fries and other fried foods (nearly all homes here have a cooker for animal/vegetable fat/oil and throw away the oil once it is too soiled). Presumably they did not factor in the environmental impact of picking-up the stuff or transporting the stuff and focused on the money value.
Nevertheless, I am in favour of giving a shot to all progressive options, and it's pretty clear that until we have a properly totally or quasi-local/autonomous energy production solution worked out, multiple solutions will have to be used in parallel.
Solar Hydro
My name Solar Hydro actually stands for Solar Hydrogen Alternative.
The concept is that we electrolyse seawater on a massive industrial scale, using solar power (this involves hydrogen transport, storage and distribution issues), or electrolyse other (waste) water on a local scale, using solar power.
Electrolysis is, using current technology, an energy-inefficient process (you have to put in more electricity than you get out), but Sun and Water are basically there, so do we really care about efficiency if those are the inputs? Absent those inputs, we're dead anyway.
So 'all that's needed' is to get the costs and the environmental impact down of producing solar cells (input is mainly sand, but some precious metals as well, and factories have to make them which affects energy and the environment as well), hydrogen transport and distribution infrastructure if we go for the industrialised/centralised option, and, if chosen as an option for cars and local heating, hydrogen fuel cells (direct hydro in cars is proven to work as well). Clearly this is no small challenge.
Nuclear fission for another 50 years, followed by nuclear fusion, both powering evolved plug-in electric hybrid cars AND electrical/hybrid engine/fuel cell usage for local heating may be a worthwhile interim option. If/once we get nuclear fusion under control, a priority will be to reduce it from 50+bn industrial plants to more localised/micro solutions, which may even become a solution in earnest if this can be achieved.
(Emissions from house/building heating are catastrophic throughout the northern hemisphere with very little by way of filtering not to mention catalytic conversion. This needs to be addressed as a matter of priority equal to cars and trucks but does not seem to be on the agenda of polcy-makers)
As regards biodiesel, I am very sceptical. Think about planting crops, putting manure AND chemicals on to make plants grow, tractors to harvest, transport to factories, factories themselves, transport to refineries, probably some further processing/mixing, transport to petrol/diesel stations, etc. Maybe it's a way of rejigging farm subsidies, and employing 1-2% of the population, but overall ENERGY-ONLY efficiency is doubtful, and I am afraid that it could be negative overall. AND this stuff will STILL AFFECT THE ENVIRONMENT, by emiting CO2 (even if considered neutral theoretically) and other noxious gases, spew out dangerous microparticles (because it will be mixed with petroleum and maybe even intrinsically), blacken historic buildings, etc. I read an article the other day which suggested that it would be a viable commercial business plan in Belgium to go round (in vehicles) to pick-up all the oil that is used by restaurants and homes to make french fries and other fried foods (nearly all homes here have a cooker for animal/vegetable fat/oil and throw away the oil once it is too soiled). Presumably they did not factor in the environmental impact of picking-up the stuff or transporting the stuff and focused on the money value.
Nevertheless, I am in favour of giving a shot to all progressive options, and it's pretty clear that until we have a properly totally or quasi-local/autonomous energy production solution worked out, multiple solutions will have to be used in parallel.
Solar Hydro
Last edited by Solar Hydro, .
Hello Russraine,
The Prius is optimised for minimum environmental impact in terms of emissions, not low MPG.
I am reporting on fuel efficiency etc. at Bismarck's request.
I have written before in this thread that some (smallish) diesel cars have similar or even better fuel economy than the Prius, but they generate smoke that contains deadly micro-dust particles and makes historic buildings go black. I am sure that some (smallish) petrol cars have similar or even better fuel economy than the Prius, and may come close on emissions.
The official Prius data on emissions is as follows:
CO 180 HC 20 NOx 10 CO2 104
The official Micra (1.2 - 48kw engine) info from nissan.co.uk (I see no 1.0 model there) only contains the CO2 figure, which is 143 (for the 3-door model - it is 161 for the 5-door model). Also the Micra fuel consumption listed on the specs is much higher than for the Prius, but driving style is very important.
As for Toyota's claims vs reality, I am using more petrol than they claim. The Toyota Europe website contains the following:
Extra urban conditions L/100km (93/116/EEC)4.2 Urban conditions L/100km (93/116/EEC)5.0 Combined L/100 km (93/116/EEC)4.3
My experience is the opposite (and worse); I use more petrol on motorways than for city driving, and my summer average must be around 4.7 l/100km (winter around 5.0 maybe even 5.1). If work gets a little quieter over the summer, I may decide to drive a tank (mainly to/from office) through the city instead of taking the motorway to see whether I can improve - it's actually a shorter distance through the city).
Solar Hydro
P.S. As discussed above in this tread, I believe in hydrogen as a fuel and I have commented upon hydrogen cars (BMW 7 HL) and hydrogen fuel cell cars (Honda FCX) - my name isn't accidental. Also, these Hydrids are in fairly early stages of commercialisation even if the Prius is actually in its third generation. If no-one would buy hybrids, it's clear that there wouldn't be much incentive to develop them further.
The Prius is optimised for minimum environmental impact in terms of emissions, not low MPG.
I am reporting on fuel efficiency etc. at Bismarck's request.
I have written before in this thread that some (smallish) diesel cars have similar or even better fuel economy than the Prius, but they generate smoke that contains deadly micro-dust particles and makes historic buildings go black. I am sure that some (smallish) petrol cars have similar or even better fuel economy than the Prius, and may come close on emissions.
The official Prius data on emissions is as follows:
CO 180 HC 20 NOx 10 CO2 104
The official Micra (1.2 - 48kw engine) info from nissan.co.uk (I see no 1.0 model there) only contains the CO2 figure, which is 143 (for the 3-door model - it is 161 for the 5-door model). Also the Micra fuel consumption listed on the specs is much higher than for the Prius, but driving style is very important.
As for Toyota's claims vs reality, I am using more petrol than they claim. The Toyota Europe website contains the following:
Extra urban conditions L/100km (93/116/EEC)4.2 Urban conditions L/100km (93/116/EEC)5.0 Combined L/100 km (93/116/EEC)4.3
My experience is the opposite (and worse); I use more petrol on motorways than for city driving, and my summer average must be around 4.7 l/100km (winter around 5.0 maybe even 5.1). If work gets a little quieter over the summer, I may decide to drive a tank (mainly to/from office) through the city instead of taking the motorway to see whether I can improve - it's actually a shorter distance through the city).
Solar Hydro
P.S. As discussed above in this tread, I believe in hydrogen as a fuel and I have commented upon hydrogen cars (BMW 7 HL) and hydrogen fuel cell cars (Honda FCX) - my name isn't accidental. Also, these Hydrids are in fairly early stages of commercialisation even if the Prius is actually in its third generation. If no-one would buy hybrids, it's clear that there wouldn't be much incentive to develop them further.
Last edited by Solar Hydro, .
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